Transcript of Radio interview DJ album (1979)

-How do you pronounce your name?
"A lot of people don't understand how to pronounce my name, so I'll tell you. You pronounce it 'Lay-na Luv-itch'."

-Your name is Yugoslavian, but you were born in Detroit. How long did you live there?
"I lived in Detroit for about 13 years and then my mother ran away from my father and we came to live in England, because my mother is English and she wanted to go home."

-Did you find much difference between Britain and America?
"When I first arrived in England, I was really aware of the calmness here. I'd never experienced anything like it before. I think, living in a big city like Detroit, there is a tension that surrounds you almost all the time. And it's only until you're able to get out of that situation that you realise what other places can be really like. When I first came here, I was able to relax for the first time and just concentrate on being myself, and not so much concentrating on the question of survival and staying alive. And now that I've been here in England for so long, I guess I really feel more European than American, although I know I still sound a little American. I feel, really, my home is here in England."

-You went to art school, right? Were there the same musical traditions as when guys like Ray Davies and Eric Clapton went?
"Well, I went to art school in London because I really wanted to get as far away from home, which was in Yorkshire, as possible. And after being there for some time, I realised that the sort of work that I wanted to do and the sort of work that the teachers there wanted me to do were totally worlds apart. I wanted to work intuitively and they wanted me to work intellectually. So, after having a lot of argument and disagreement and trying that way, I decided to go my own way. And when they left me alone, I found that, really, being in the fine art department was very constricting and very, very narrow-minded. And I began to look further out, further. I... just see, I wanted to be creative, but I wanted to move out, to extend myself in whichever way I could. I began to get involved in fringe theatre, and I started to learn to play the saxophone. Now, I never really listened very much to music before, except on a very casual basis. And so I wasn't really aware of what the current trends in music were. I just knew that I wanted to get out of the fine art scene. So I can't really comment too much on what was happening musically because I think I was in a plane of my own at that time."

-Where did you take up the saxophone?
"Being involved in fringe theatre groups was a start for me. There was a show that was transferring from a very small theatre into a much larger one here in London. And the bandleader said that I could be involved in the show. But, really, in order to get the job I would have to play the saxophone. I did try to play the guitar a couple of years before this, and I had learned a few chords and all that, but I was never really comfortable or happy playing the guitar. So I tried to play the violin and that was a bit better. But then, having been pushed into learning to play the saxophone, I really found that I had an instant affinity for it and I continued with it, I stuck with it."

-The album is credited as "A Stateless Production". Who are the Stateless?
"Well, when we first started to record music for Stiff Records, I have never really written any songs before and I never really performed any of my own material. So the whole project was a very, very new thing. It was also done very quickly, which was great, really, because I think you should produce music now, for the time. And it was done so quickly that there was really no other producer around to be involved. So what happened was, we wrote songs, and we went into the studio and I produced the album, along with the engineer and along with my songwriting partner Les Chappell."

-Is that the first time you'd produced a record?

"That was the very first time that we have been involved in any sort of project of our own. I mean, we had played in other bands before, but we'd never actually done our own songs."

-Les Chappell is your guitarist and songwriting partner. Where does he enter the picture?
"Well, Les and I have known each other for quite a long time. He was at the same art school as me and I worked on and off with him in various bands. And it was about a year ago now that I came back from working in Europe and we decided we would try and write our own songs. Because I suppose, really not having had a very musical background at school, we didn't have that experience behind us to feel confident about writing our own songs. So we really had to go out and gain a lot of various experiences, which we did with various different projects. But it eventually became time for us to write our own songs. Some of the songs came very easy, songs came very much on the spur of the moment, but some songs took a lot longer. In fact, there was one song that we nearly threw out, but eventually turned out to be one of my best songs, and that was "Too Tender to Touch"."

-Do you feel part of the new wave ?
"I think as far as talking about energy and vitality, and being really involved in what you're doing, and being sharp and being aware, I think all these things are connected with the new wave, and I guess in that way I'd like to be involved. But quite often the subject matter of the new wave is a little bit different to what subject I talk about. The new wave is really... a lot of people in the new wave sing about things that are happening to them on a sort of community basis, on a social basis. They speak in facts and they speak very much on a street level, on a name-to-name level. But the songs that I write are more personal and more emotional, and I very rarely name any facts or places or names."

-What do you think of disco, because you've written some lyrics to disco albums?

"I wrote some disco lyrics about a year ago, and I was really interested to do that, because I wanted to get inside a studio. I wanted to see what it is like, I wanted to experience what it was like being involved with a big production, type LP. I wanted to see what these session singers were really like. And it was an opportunity given to me by an artist called Cerrone. He's a French guy, he couldn't really speak very good English, so he needed somebody to help him with the lyrics. And also he was a bit tired of doing these erotic heavy breathing type songs, so he really needed a different slant altogether. And I wrote a science fiction story called "Supernature", and it was something totally different, something which hadn't been discussed before in disco music, so it was quite successful.

"I really feel that disco music, when it has a personality and when there is somebody who you can approach and identify with, then, you know, it's alright. Also, when disco music is creative. For example, using a certain sound that nobody else has discovered before. I find that interesting. But I do find that the dance rhythm is fairly monotonous, in the fact that so many disco records have exactly the same tempo. I think that after listening for a certain amount of time in a club, I think it would drive me absolutely up the wall, but I guess it's different if you're dancing to it."

-Do you like any electronic music?
"I'm very interested in electronic music. I think there is really sounds for the future there in the electronic music. But I think it's far too easy for people to get into cliche type sounds. It's very easy to get a synthesizer and set it up and just push a few buttons and get the same sounds that everybody else is coming up with. I think that's really boring. I think you must try and be inventive with it. Also, I like combining the electronic sounds with the natural sounds. For example, when I play the saxophone on stage I like to combine it with the synthesizer, so we get a really unique sound. It's still got the horn sound there, but it's taking it a little bit further."

-Who is the J. O'Neill that wrote "Say When" and "Telepathy" on your LP?

"This is Jimmie O'Neill. He's from Scotland, and I met him via a DJ called Charlie Gillett, I'll talk about him a bit later. But Jimmie O'Neill has been writing songs for quite a few people. He's now working with Rachel Sweet at the moment and he's also got his own band together. I think originally he wrote a track called "Say When" for Suzi Quatro to record. But for some reason or other, I don't know why, she turned it down and I recorded it. And I was really pleased about it and I think it's, you know, one of the most exciting songs we've got on our album."

-Stiff Records has a name in Britain as a small and zany independent label. How did you tie up with them?
"Well, I was first introduced to Stiff Records through a DJ and writer called Charlie Gillett. He's wrote a book called "The Sound of the City", which maybe you might have heard of. He's very knowledgeable about popular music and he's also very excited and interested, not only from a historical point of view, in fact more so from what is happening right now in music. And he's been very instrumental in spotting the potential in people long before other people. In fact, artists like Graham Parker, Dire Straits, Elvis Costello and Ian Dury, they were all played on his show long before they actually got signed up and became famous. And I rang up his show one time when I was really looking for a job. See, a lot of musicians used to listen to his show and he had a spot on his show where you could ring up and, you know, advertise yourself. So I rang up and said I was a horn player looking for a job and gave my telephone number across and, well, nobody rang up. So I thought I'd better write him a letter, and I did, and he rang me back. He was getting a band together for a songwriter that he'd found. I met him and began to talk with him and told him that I was starting to write songs with Les. And he seemed to be really, really interested, I mean, much more than anybody else that I had ever come across. Most of the time when I tried to sing, people didn't like my voice at all and they were really, you know, trying to make me sing like somebody else, you know, somebody who is already established. And I never really found that idea very interesting. I wanted to, you know, be myself. So, well, we've recorded various tracks of these songwriters and we also recorded a song called "I Think We're Alone Now", which is by Tommy James and the Shondells originally. And we took that track to Stiff, and Stiff seemed to be very interested in this. I don't know whether it was because of the song itself or because of my voice or because of the way that we had arranged it, because it was very different from the original. Maybe all these things combined stimulated Stiff's interest. And they decided more or less there and then that that's where we should be."

-You travelled around Britain in October and November 1978 on the Be Stiff Tour. Tell me about that.
"Well, never a dull moment on the train. We travelled everywhere to... from each gig we travelled by train, a special train that was a normal train in every other way, except that there was us travelling on it. We had six carriages. Some were of the old-fashioned compartment type carriages which you could lock yourself away into, if you were feeling a bit sensitive. There was a buffet-car, and there was an exhibition room, and there was plenty of space for people to move around in and chat, and for Rachel to do her schoolwork on. And this was a very, very good idea, because, really, there was a lot of people involved in this tour. There was five Stiff acts plus one extra band who was backing Rachel. And, you see, all of the artists on this tour were brand new artists that nobody had ever heard of before, really. Well, I mean, I suppose people had heard of Wreckless Eric, but he was the only one, really. Everybody else was really new to the music scene and it was a real introduction to the public.

"So we went across by train, we travelled to all kinds of different places that bands don't normally ever go to. In fact, we went to one place up in Wick, and I think they hadn't had a band there for at least three years. This place is right up at the end of the world, I mean, it's virtually, you know, on the edge there. And we also travelled to Ireland, we travelled to lots and lots of small places and also lots of big towns too. But we really covered the whole of the United Kingdom. And in that way I think we really introduced ourselves to a lot of people in a very short time. I think the idea of having six totally different types of acts on a bill was a really interesting one. I mean, perhaps the audience maybe had got worn out by the time the sixth band came on. But it was also good for us as performers, because we'd never really been performing our own music before. And it was interesting because also the running order rotated from night to night. So sometimes you were starting the show and sometimes you were finishing the show, and so it was a marvellous experience."

-Where do you get your songwriting ideas from?

"Ideas can come from all different kinds of directions. Usually the very idea is just a little inspiration, it's a very small thing sometimes. Very, very tiny. Sometimes it's only one word or sometimes it's a part of a melody that I just think of when I wake up in the morning. Actually, the morning is a very good time for me to write songs, I think my brain is refreshed. And also I rely very much on using the first pure ideas that I get. I don't like to think about them too much, because I think if I think about them too much, I begin to water them down or put certain constraints on them, and restrictions. Because, well, if I feel like doing (demonstrates sound) in the middle of a song, I should do it, you know, I really should. And I shouldn't think 'Oh, that's too silly', you know, 'people might think it's a bit nutty'. If I think of that, I should do it. You know, like, when you see kids walking down the street and they suddenly decide they would like to run, I mean, they don't think 'Oh well, who's looking at me?' They just run. But as we get older, we put more and more restrictions on ourselves. And so you don't really see too many, you know, forty or fifty year old ladies running down the street, you know? And maybe they would really like to. Especially if it is a nice day or maybe if they see a wall and they would like to jump upon the wall and walk on the wall, like kids do sometimes, you know, I think you should do that. And I think it's a great shame that you don't have the courage to use these first little ideas. I mean, obviously I don't believe in hurting anybody else. And so, obviously, if I felt like stabbing somebody in the throat, I mean I should control myself then. But if it's not gonna hurt anybody, and if it's gonna make you feel better, then I think you should use these initial ideas. So mainly the songs come from a very, very small spark. And then that's when Les and I get together, and we have this little spark and we extend it and both of us contribute melodies or parts of melodies to the song.

"Sometimes I'm also inspired by something Les plays on the guitar. He's basically a rhythm guitarist and he quite often just plays with no particular idea in mind. And I may hear a certain rhythm and it may conjure up a certain story in my mind. So that's another way we get ideas. But sometimes I get ideas, they come into my head completely out of the blue. And I write them down, and a story evolves. And then I realise through looking at the story, I can see a past event has been locked somewhere in my brain and it's now coming out in a song. Quite often it's the most dramatic experiences that you've had in your life that are easily coming to the forefront. Most of the other boring things that happen to you I think are stored sort of further back in the shallows of your memory. But the dramatic ones are always there, close to the surface. So I think that ideas come in like flashes of inspiration and by the time you write them down, you maybe can realise that this was an event that happened a long time ago. Somehow it's gotten into your mind and it's come out again. A little bit different, a litte bit vaguer, a little bit... sort of more wider. It's not exactly that incident, it could have been any incident in time. But that's just the effect of the process that's widened the experience.

"And sometimes I also get ideas from my opinions when I read a book or something. I maybe read a book and think about it and that will also stimulate an idea. But it's just... anything goes, there's really no rules."

-Why is the album called "Stateless"?
"Well, "stateless" is a word that can have many meanings. At that particular time of writing the album I actually didn't have a passport. I've been in England so long that my original American passport had run out, and I did wonder for a time whether I would keep American citizenship or become British. But in the end I resolved that one and I kept my American citizenship. But, really, the album is not meant to be a political statement at all. It's just the various songs on the album have all got a separate emotional content. In fact, the "stateless" means there is no particular state of mind or no particular emotional state continuing throughout the album.

"For example, songs like "Writing on the Wall"... is a very lonely song. There is really no hope even right at the end of the song. There's no real hope to get over that particular experience that was felt. It's just... sometimes you do have very bad experiences where you didn't perhaps react in the way that you should have done. Perhaps you didn't pay enough attention to a certain relationship that you were having at the time and you may regret it later. But if you didn't do what you should have done and you suffer for it, there is no way that you can actually erase that suffering. It's still there. You can only just learn from your experiences and the next time round maybe you might learn something and react differently.

"There is also love songs. For example, like... a song like "Tonight", which was written by Nick Lowe. I first heard this song when I went into Stiff, in the very early days of being involved with Stiff. And Dave Robinson, who is the boss of Stiff, played me a little demo tape with just Nick singing on acoustic guitar. And I didn't know he had done it on his album. I just heard that demo and I was really touched by it. It was a very simple song and it seemed so sincere when I heard it that I really wanted to do it. And I later heard his version, which is very different to mine. Mine is much more dramatic and his is a lot more poppy than mine. But that's just another type of song that's on the album.

"There is some songs that look very much into the future of things or how things might turn out. One of those is "Momentary Breakdown", which is a song about the sort of magnetic feeling that you sometimes experience when you see a complete stranger, or somebody who you think is a complete stranger. Especially if you're... for example, if you're travelling on a public transport, and you happen to have your eyes crossed with somebody from a distance, and you see that person, and for some reason you just have this recognition between those people. But once again your restrictions take over and you feel as though you can't really go up to that person and talk to them. Because you wonder what they might think of you, you wonder what the people around you might think about you, you're too scared to react on your own instincts. But this story turns out very positively in the end.

"But if you listen very hard, I think you can work out the stories for yourself."

-A lot of people in America have compared you to Patti Smith. How do you feel about that?
"I think that both Patti Smith and myself are emotional singers. I think that we both are very positive also, and we're both very serious about what we do. I think that's the comparison that I would see. Also from a visual point of view, it appears that she wears what she likes, what she feels comfortable in and regardless of whether it's perhaps untrendy or trendy or what. You know, she just wears what she likes and I feel affinity with that. I also wear what I like. I mean, a lot of people think I try to be theatrical but that's not at all the case, I just wear what I wear because I like it. But I believe that our styles are very different. For example, I couldn't ever imagine Patti Smith singing a song like "One in a 1,000,000", although I'd like to hear her try."

-Where do your clothes come from?
"(Laughs) Well, I choose my clothes from wherever I happen to see them, I don't have any particular system in choosing clothes. But I know what I like when I see it. Quite often I go to second-hand shops or I go to jumble sales or people might give me clothes, if they think they might have something to suit me. Or I often go to the sales when the big department stores have sales on. But I always go on the last day, because by then everything has been picked over and all the popular things have been taken away. And as I don't really want to wear what everybody else wears anyway, I think that's a very good day for me to go, because chances are I'll have something that nobody else wants and it will be unique to me."

-What is the musical trend in Britain at the moment? Is punk dead?
"I think the excitement and the revolution that took place because of the whole punk idea was really good and shaking up people here. Because as a lot of places still are existing now on very sort of middle-of-the-road type songs and that, punk injected a lot of enthusiasm and actual enjoyment and actual sort of physical involvement and also enjoying fashion as well. And it also encouraged a lot of people who didn't have a serious musical background to try something. So there was a lot of new ideas injected into the music. Now, a lot of people didn't have such a good musical ability, but at least it was a start. And I think that those people who took the opportunity that the whole punk movement gave them and developed it and created their own style and kept on, they are the people who are still with us now. I mean, some people just steamed in there and tried do do something and didn't progress at all. And of course I think those people are really boring. But I like to think that the whole spirit is still around."

-Do you enjoy touring and playing gigs and when do you plan to tour America?

"When you go out on the road, it's the best test you can make for your songs. Because sometimes, through trying to be creative and trying to create something original, it's very easy to get very self-indulgent and write songs about something that has totally nothing to do with anybody else's experiences or leaves the audience totally out of it altogether. I mean, I guess some audiences may enjoy this type of thing, but I like to think that my songs do have a meaning to other people. I guess that's one of the reasons why I don't really name any names or state many facts in my songs, because I want other people to be able to relate to them. But there's something about standing on stage and just throwing your feelings out into the crowd and hoping that they can respond in some way. And as long as they can express themselves back to you in some way, even if they don't really like the songs, if they react in some way, that exchange of energy is something that you don't experience in any other way. So I guess for that reason I really like doing gigs.

"I think that we'll probably come to America sometime in the autumn, but I don't know really exactly when. I'd like to think it was before Christmas sometime, though."

-What's the story behind "Lucky Number" and how do you think that it came to be so successful?

"Well, when we went to Stiff Records with the song "I Think We're Alone Now", that was the a-side. And we had to get together a b-side really quick. And Les and I, of course we said, can we... let's try and write the b-side. So we only had a couple of days to get something together and we came up with the song "Lucky Number". It was in a much more primitive form than it is now. We ended up putting another verse in it and we put it on the album. And we also remixed the track when we put it out as a single. So it has had quite a long history. It started out just as a b-side and it ended up being a really big hit for us here in England and Holland and several other countries in Europe. And it's strange to think that that was really the first original song that we ever recorded for Stiff. And basically it's a romantic song. It's a song about one person who thinks they're very self-contained, don't really need anybody else and is having, you know, perfectly a good time. Well, that's the course until they meet the right person and then they realise that it's more fun with two. And although I think the story is really good, and I think that it's a romantic song with a difference, it's not slushy or, you know, drippy or, you know, overwhelmingly romantic in any way, I think it's pretty much with the modern spirit of things, but I guess really the thing that made it appeal to a lot of different people, I mean, a lot of very young kids like it, and I think one of the reasons is because of the little noise that we make. And that noise is 'ah-oo ah-oo'."

"Try me one too much!"